Post by Athans on Dec 1, 2014 16:04:04 GMT -6
I guess I will throw this in this area of the forum...
It came to my attention that a lot of people were outraged over there being a black stormtrooper and they are being called racists. I did not personally look into what these people were saying, but I am going to nerd out and point out why it is probably NOT racism. It could be racism but it is more certainly poor reasoning or not being a big enough nerd.
The reason people are upset is because what stormtroopers are supposed to be, which are clones. If we look to Episode II Attack of the Clones, we learn that an army was created using clones of the bounty hunter Jango Fett.
You can read about it here…
starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Clone_trooper
For those that actually are worried about the race, the actor that played Boba Fett (the clone son of Jango Fett ) in Episode II is Daniel Logan and is of Maori decent, which means he is Polynesian
The actor that played Jango Fett is Temuera Morrison He is of Māori, Scottish, and Irish descent.
These clone troopers are what would become stormtroopers. Essentially ALL stormtroopers are supposed to be identical to one another. We hear princess Leia echoing this in A New Hope when she says “aren’t you a little short to be a stormtrooper” when Han and Luke walk into her holding cell. The reason people are upset is because they are all supposed to be a clone of a man that is not black. However, the fan-boys are not trying or thinking hard enough.
If the fan-boys actually sat down and thought about it, they would realize one problem with that fact…These clones were first created in 32 BBY (Before Battle of Yavin.) For those not familiar with that term, the Battle of Yavin was the battle in which in the first Death Star was destroyed in Episode IV A New Hope.
Here the simple fact that these stormtroopers are STILL made up of those clones is problematic. Let me quote from the Star Wars wiki in the link I posted above, their source being Episode 2 Attack of the Clones…
“Through the technological capability to accelerate the speed of a clone's physical growth, the Kaminoans successfully engineered fully-grown clones in half of the time that real Humans required to reach maturity. As a result of the genetic modification that enhanced their growth process, the clone troopers aged at twice the rate of Human beings. At the age of ten, a clone was resembled a young Jango Fett in his early twenties, and was thus fit and prepared for combat.”
The clones age at TWICE the rate of normal humans, which would actually make them around 60 by the Battle of Yavin. Basically stormtroopers were made up of old men, which creates problems in the original Star Wars movies.
We do know that some clones were still in the process of maturing when Obi-Wan is first there talking about the clones but we also know the entire project was shut down in 19 BBY. One could argue that these clones could be as young as 40 by the Battle of Yavin. But there is another problem…
The number of clones made is vastly smaller than what is needed by A New Hope. In Attack of the Clones we learn that 200,000 clones are ready with a million more on the way. We are told this on the wiki…
“This means that, at the beginning of the war, the Grand Army would have consisted of 200,000 clones, increasing in number quickly to 1,200,000, a figure apparently attained by the time ofShatterpoint (written by Matthew Stover), set six months after the Battle of Geonosis. A figure of ~3 million clones was cited in the article Guide to the Grand Army of the Republic and the novel Republic Commando: Triple Zero (both written by Karen Traviss, with Ryan Kaufman as co-author on the Guide…), set a year after Geonosis.”
For comparison purposes the United States has an active military force of around 1,300,000 and a total military force of about 2.2 million. Obviously the military of the Empire in Star Wars is much larger, in that it covered the entire galaxy. Here are some figures from wiki…
“The Imperial Military was considered a massive organization, with tens of trillions of regular army soldiers, trillions of fleet crew, and a sizable force of stormtroopers.[2]
The Empire used many foot soldiers in battle. Stormtroopers, the most common, were the backbone of the Imperial military, serving as the Empire's soldiers, much like many of them did as clone troopers during the Clone Wars. Some stormtroopers were clones left from the Clone Wars, but Emperor Palpatine decided to start cloning other soldiers from different men and start recruitment after the Kamino Uprising.”
If we continue reading about the Star Wars Expanded Universe we find a few other things about clone troops. We do know that on another planet Palpatine created another batch of clones and apparently they reached full maturity after one year (as opposed to the 10.) Nothing is said about how this affected this lifespan. Palpatine also did not trust clones so they recruited man types of humans and aliens. We are given a bit more info here.
starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Grand_Army_of_the_Republic
“The total amount of clones involved in the war is not known, as their ranks were bolstered by new stocks and volunteers as the fighting dragged on. With the formation of the Galactic Empire, the Grand Army of the Republic ceased to exist and was reorganized into the Imperial Army. All military personnel of the GAR were required to swear allegiance to the new government in order to remain on active duty and those that refused were branded as deserters and traitors after which they were hunted down and executed.[10]”
“During the Galactic Civil War, clones of Jango Fett's lineage made up about 1/3 of all stormtroopers in the Galactic Empire, but it is not known of how many were left from the Clone Wars by the start of the Galactic Civil War.[11] Due to the influx of non-Fett clones and regular humans into the army, the Fett clones, such as Commander Cody, viewed the Stormtrooper Corps as an embarrassment to the legacy of the Grand Army of the Republic.”
But as fan-boys should know, all of this Expanded Universe stuff is not considered canon…
“As of April 25, 2014, the only previously published materials that are considered canon are the six Star Wars films and the Star Wars: The Clone Wars television series and film, while the Expanded Universe is no longer considered canon and was re-termed as the "Legends" brand. Most Star Wars material released after April 25, 2014—with some exceptions—is composed in collaboration with the Lucasfilm Story Group, making it part of the "new canon." “
This means that most of what I went over holds no authority, and we simply have to rely on the movies, and this is what the movies tell us…
-1.2 million clones total
-Accelerated aging (twice that of a human)
-The first clones were created in 32 BBY, the latest 19 BBY
-Leia says “aren’t you a little short to be a stormtrooper?” Suggesting they were still made up of the clones
-Return of the Jedi takes place 4 ABY (After Battle of Yavin)
-Episode VII takes place about 30 years after Return of the Jedi, so roughly 34 ABY
Let’s do the numbers…
32 BBY to 34 ABY is 66 years, so if they aged at the rate of normal humans they would be 66 in this movie, or what I would call “past military age.” If we throw in the growth factor, this would make them 132. If people are upset about the inaccuracy (allegedly) of the stormtrooper in the upcoming movie not being a clone, you need to use your head and do some reasoning that even someone that has simply watched the movies could figure out…or stop being racist…
AND who said he was a stormtrooper?
It came to my attention that a lot of people were outraged over there being a black stormtrooper and they are being called racists. I did not personally look into what these people were saying, but I am going to nerd out and point out why it is probably NOT racism. It could be racism but it is more certainly poor reasoning or not being a big enough nerd.
The reason people are upset is because what stormtroopers are supposed to be, which are clones. If we look to Episode II Attack of the Clones, we learn that an army was created using clones of the bounty hunter Jango Fett.
You can read about it here…
starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Clone_trooper
For those that actually are worried about the race, the actor that played Boba Fett (the clone son of Jango Fett ) in Episode II is Daniel Logan and is of Maori decent, which means he is Polynesian
The actor that played Jango Fett is Temuera Morrison He is of Māori, Scottish, and Irish descent.
These clone troopers are what would become stormtroopers. Essentially ALL stormtroopers are supposed to be identical to one another. We hear princess Leia echoing this in A New Hope when she says “aren’t you a little short to be a stormtrooper” when Han and Luke walk into her holding cell. The reason people are upset is because they are all supposed to be a clone of a man that is not black. However, the fan-boys are not trying or thinking hard enough.
If the fan-boys actually sat down and thought about it, they would realize one problem with that fact…These clones were first created in 32 BBY (Before Battle of Yavin.) For those not familiar with that term, the Battle of Yavin was the battle in which in the first Death Star was destroyed in Episode IV A New Hope.
Here the simple fact that these stormtroopers are STILL made up of those clones is problematic. Let me quote from the Star Wars wiki in the link I posted above, their source being Episode 2 Attack of the Clones…
“Through the technological capability to accelerate the speed of a clone's physical growth, the Kaminoans successfully engineered fully-grown clones in half of the time that real Humans required to reach maturity. As a result of the genetic modification that enhanced their growth process, the clone troopers aged at twice the rate of Human beings. At the age of ten, a clone was resembled a young Jango Fett in his early twenties, and was thus fit and prepared for combat.”
The clones age at TWICE the rate of normal humans, which would actually make them around 60 by the Battle of Yavin. Basically stormtroopers were made up of old men, which creates problems in the original Star Wars movies.
We do know that some clones were still in the process of maturing when Obi-Wan is first there talking about the clones but we also know the entire project was shut down in 19 BBY. One could argue that these clones could be as young as 40 by the Battle of Yavin. But there is another problem…
The number of clones made is vastly smaller than what is needed by A New Hope. In Attack of the Clones we learn that 200,000 clones are ready with a million more on the way. We are told this on the wiki…
“This means that, at the beginning of the war, the Grand Army would have consisted of 200,000 clones, increasing in number quickly to 1,200,000, a figure apparently attained by the time ofShatterpoint (written by Matthew Stover), set six months after the Battle of Geonosis. A figure of ~3 million clones was cited in the article Guide to the Grand Army of the Republic and the novel Republic Commando: Triple Zero (both written by Karen Traviss, with Ryan Kaufman as co-author on the Guide…), set a year after Geonosis.”
For comparison purposes the United States has an active military force of around 1,300,000 and a total military force of about 2.2 million. Obviously the military of the Empire in Star Wars is much larger, in that it covered the entire galaxy. Here are some figures from wiki…
“The Imperial Military was considered a massive organization, with tens of trillions of regular army soldiers, trillions of fleet crew, and a sizable force of stormtroopers.[2]
The Empire used many foot soldiers in battle. Stormtroopers, the most common, were the backbone of the Imperial military, serving as the Empire's soldiers, much like many of them did as clone troopers during the Clone Wars. Some stormtroopers were clones left from the Clone Wars, but Emperor Palpatine decided to start cloning other soldiers from different men and start recruitment after the Kamino Uprising.”
If we continue reading about the Star Wars Expanded Universe we find a few other things about clone troops. We do know that on another planet Palpatine created another batch of clones and apparently they reached full maturity after one year (as opposed to the 10.) Nothing is said about how this affected this lifespan. Palpatine also did not trust clones so they recruited man types of humans and aliens. We are given a bit more info here.
starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Grand_Army_of_the_Republic
“The total amount of clones involved in the war is not known, as their ranks were bolstered by new stocks and volunteers as the fighting dragged on. With the formation of the Galactic Empire, the Grand Army of the Republic ceased to exist and was reorganized into the Imperial Army. All military personnel of the GAR were required to swear allegiance to the new government in order to remain on active duty and those that refused were branded as deserters and traitors after which they were hunted down and executed.[10]”
“During the Galactic Civil War, clones of Jango Fett's lineage made up about 1/3 of all stormtroopers in the Galactic Empire, but it is not known of how many were left from the Clone Wars by the start of the Galactic Civil War.[11] Due to the influx of non-Fett clones and regular humans into the army, the Fett clones, such as Commander Cody, viewed the Stormtrooper Corps as an embarrassment to the legacy of the Grand Army of the Republic.”
But as fan-boys should know, all of this Expanded Universe stuff is not considered canon…
“As of April 25, 2014, the only previously published materials that are considered canon are the six Star Wars films and the Star Wars: The Clone Wars television series and film, while the Expanded Universe is no longer considered canon and was re-termed as the "Legends" brand. Most Star Wars material released after April 25, 2014—with some exceptions—is composed in collaboration with the Lucasfilm Story Group, making it part of the "new canon." “
This means that most of what I went over holds no authority, and we simply have to rely on the movies, and this is what the movies tell us…
-1.2 million clones total
-Accelerated aging (twice that of a human)
-The first clones were created in 32 BBY, the latest 19 BBY
-Leia says “aren’t you a little short to be a stormtrooper?” Suggesting they were still made up of the clones
-Return of the Jedi takes place 4 ABY (After Battle of Yavin)
-Episode VII takes place about 30 years after Return of the Jedi, so roughly 34 ABY
Let’s do the numbers…
32 BBY to 34 ABY is 66 years, so if they aged at the rate of normal humans they would be 66 in this movie, or what I would call “past military age.” If we throw in the growth factor, this would make them 132. If people are upset about the inaccuracy (allegedly) of the stormtrooper in the upcoming movie not being a clone, you need to use your head and do some reasoning that even someone that has simply watched the movies could figure out…or stop being racist…
AND who said he was a stormtrooper?
