Post by Athans on Jan 1, 2016 10:29:40 GMT -6
I came across an interesting blog post found here...
apikoris.blogspot.co.il/2016/01/gods-of-bible.html
Check out his blog. He points out the different gods found in the Bible.
I wanted to respond to his blog and figured I would do it here to add to the forum.
I can tell by a couple of your blog posts that you are not a scholar in the area, but I admire your self-study. You have clearly spent years on it. I just wanted to respond and help you out on a couple of points.
First, you correctly point out that it is henotheism, not monotheism. But before I get into that, I want to point out the four authors of the Torah.
You have a post about Elohim vs YAHWEH apikoris.blogspot.co.il/2015/08/from-god-to-only-god.html
This problem is much simpler than you make it. When looking at the verbs it is pretty clear that Elohim is meant to be singular. The word itself is plural, but it is what we call the "royal we." It is similar to the word "sheep." Sheep can be singular or plural, so we have to look at the verbs around it to determine this. Elohim is certainly meant to be singular. There are issues, such as when it is used in conjunction with YAHWEH (LORD) "LORD God." This is due to the combination of the texts from different authors, so let me address that...
To make it simple, here is the wikipedia page...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documentary_hypothesis
This is the general accepted argument, that there are 4 main sources for the Torah, the J, E, D, and P.
What we are really reading is a combination of the sources. The J source uses YHWH and the E uses Elohim to refer to God. When the sources are combined it causes issues, but when broken apart, both can read as separate stories. You ever wonder why there appears to be two creation stories and two flood stories? It is because of the combination of sources. My favorite example is the Flood story. This fun link breaks the flood story down by source. There are two readable stories combined into one.
www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/bible/floo-flash.html
This accounts for the Elohim vs YAHWEH issue. On the issue of other gods...
You are correct that Judaism started out as henotheistic (for those that don't know, this means multiple gods, but the worship of only one.) I think what you are unaware of is the FIRST monotheistic statement in the Hebrew Bible...
Isaiah 44:6 contains the first clear statement of monotheism: "I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god"
This comes in what we call Deutero-Isaiah, which ironically was written during the time of the Babylonian Exile.
You said "The idea of demons and devils and the Lord of Hell and His minions is found nowhere in the Tanach. While the Jews would pick up such things from the Babylonians, Christianity would arise and take such ideas to a whole new level of supernatural dualism."
You are incorrect that they picked this up from the Babylonians. They picked this up from the Zoroastrians, the people that liberated them and restored Israel under King Cyrus. The book of Isaiah even calls Cyrus "God's anointed" or "messiah." Zoroastrianism accounts for those things you mentioned and accounts for the beliefs in Christianity. Zoroastrianism is monotheistic in the way Christianity is with the "Holy Trinity," different "gods" are an aspect of the one god. Zoroastrianism, combined with Greek/Roman traditions is what Christianity was born out of. Jewish monotheism can out of their Zoroastrian liberators. Cyrus, not Jesus actually fulfilled the prophecy.
I hope this helps you understand these issues between Elohim and YAHWEH, and henotheism vs monotheism.
apikoris.blogspot.co.il/2016/01/gods-of-bible.html
Check out his blog. He points out the different gods found in the Bible.
I wanted to respond to his blog and figured I would do it here to add to the forum.
I can tell by a couple of your blog posts that you are not a scholar in the area, but I admire your self-study. You have clearly spent years on it. I just wanted to respond and help you out on a couple of points.
First, you correctly point out that it is henotheism, not monotheism. But before I get into that, I want to point out the four authors of the Torah.
You have a post about Elohim vs YAHWEH apikoris.blogspot.co.il/2015/08/from-god-to-only-god.html
This problem is much simpler than you make it. When looking at the verbs it is pretty clear that Elohim is meant to be singular. The word itself is plural, but it is what we call the "royal we." It is similar to the word "sheep." Sheep can be singular or plural, so we have to look at the verbs around it to determine this. Elohim is certainly meant to be singular. There are issues, such as when it is used in conjunction with YAHWEH (LORD) "LORD God." This is due to the combination of the texts from different authors, so let me address that...
To make it simple, here is the wikipedia page...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documentary_hypothesis
This is the general accepted argument, that there are 4 main sources for the Torah, the J, E, D, and P.
What we are really reading is a combination of the sources. The J source uses YHWH and the E uses Elohim to refer to God. When the sources are combined it causes issues, but when broken apart, both can read as separate stories. You ever wonder why there appears to be two creation stories and two flood stories? It is because of the combination of sources. My favorite example is the Flood story. This fun link breaks the flood story down by source. There are two readable stories combined into one.
www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/bible/floo-flash.html
This accounts for the Elohim vs YAHWEH issue. On the issue of other gods...
You are correct that Judaism started out as henotheistic (for those that don't know, this means multiple gods, but the worship of only one.) I think what you are unaware of is the FIRST monotheistic statement in the Hebrew Bible...
Isaiah 44:6 contains the first clear statement of monotheism: "I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god"
This comes in what we call Deutero-Isaiah, which ironically was written during the time of the Babylonian Exile.
You said "The idea of demons and devils and the Lord of Hell and His minions is found nowhere in the Tanach. While the Jews would pick up such things from the Babylonians, Christianity would arise and take such ideas to a whole new level of supernatural dualism."
You are incorrect that they picked this up from the Babylonians. They picked this up from the Zoroastrians, the people that liberated them and restored Israel under King Cyrus. The book of Isaiah even calls Cyrus "God's anointed" or "messiah." Zoroastrianism accounts for those things you mentioned and accounts for the beliefs in Christianity. Zoroastrianism is monotheistic in the way Christianity is with the "Holy Trinity," different "gods" are an aspect of the one god. Zoroastrianism, combined with Greek/Roman traditions is what Christianity was born out of. Jewish monotheism can out of their Zoroastrian liberators. Cyrus, not Jesus actually fulfilled the prophecy.
I hope this helps you understand these issues between Elohim and YAHWEH, and henotheism vs monotheism.
